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Posted By Topic: Type F RCD

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 19:09

When I did my refresher last year thru ECANZ the lovely info book talked about Type F RCD - for high freq installs like electronic ballast etc.

My manufacturer doc for Diakin inverter heatpump states to install with an rcd that can handle harmoinics.

Very interesting subject. So far nothing of type F in NZ but schinder do have type SI which is a Type A enhanced against harmonics.

So what are people thoughts?
   

Sarmajor
Nov 14 2013 19:24

Use the search function:-)

http://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1354693433&PHPSESSID=70fdb1ec65b1e6dbadcf7e6f2e46fc49

But why would you put a VSD on an RCD? Surely the equipment connected is hardwired and therefore does not require RCD protection.


   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 19:33

The quote for the inverter heatpump is \"be sure to install an earth leak detector. (one that can handle higher harmonics). (this unit uses an inverter, which means that it must be used an earth leak detector capable handling harmoincs in order to prevent malfunctioning of the earth leak detector itself).\"

There following manufacturer instructions means Type F
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 19:35

Were said instructions written in Japan?

Please proceed to wiring instruction as per NZ wiring rules.
   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 19:39

Hmmm 2.6.2.2 does state Type F
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 19:46

You\'re getting a bit ahead of everyone else ;)
Currently called type B.

But getting back to the question, why install one on a permanently wired appliance?

One thing that really annoys me, is heat pump installers who just wire off the closes power point. But that wouldn\'t be the reason right?

   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 19:51

Nope, my good practice is a new circuit, even for the small ones.

I do see what you mean with Type B. Same symbols plus extra. I will check on them. Thx
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 19:52

No you\'re right. Type F is different. But only referenced in amendment 2 which isn\'t applicable yet (afaik).

But why do you want a RCD on a heat pump?
   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 19:55

I dont, but manufacturer instructions????
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 19:59

Ok, so we\'re back to my 19:35 post.

The instructions are informational, and don\'t match NZ requirements.
   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 20:07

This is where is game gets interesting. If I rely on manufacturer instructions to install, then I must follow then Unless they contradict the rules etc or are unsafe correct?

But also how about those high freq electronic ballasts? domestic - possible, a type A may not make the grade?
   

Sarmajor
Nov 14 2013 20:10

The instructions sound like rubbish to me.
I hate crappy translations and instructions that contradict themselves.

You can get type F RCDs and they are approved for use in NZ in schedule 4 Section 5 of ESR 2010.
You will also require an SDOC for the device.

Not sure who would be your best bet for a supplier as their has probably not been much demand for the units in the NZ market yet.
   

mralarms
Nov 14 2013 20:12

Yeah love those instructions. So for now just the MCB (with SDoC).
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 20:17

The instructions also say \"Follow all Local, and State electrical codes\".

http://www.daikinac.com/content/assets/DOC/InstallationManuals/RXS09_12DAVJU%20Installation%20Manual.pdf
   

DougP
Nov 14 2013 20:32

The instructions asking for an RCD can\'t be a functional requirement for the heat pump.

If it isn\'t required under NZ rules, I think you can safely leave it out.
   

BrianW
Nov 14 2013 20:36

I might have missed it, but where in the regs does it say that we HAVE to follow manufacturers instructions? 14A only talks about instructions needing to comply, and resulting in a safe installation, it doesnt say they have to be used.
   

AlecK
Nov 15 2013 08:52

I\'m with Brian; nothing in ESRs says you have to follow MIs. Though if you don\'t, any deviation from them is your responsibility. And may affect warranty.

MIs must be such as to result in a safe and compliant installation (unless they specifically say they don\'t apply in NZ).[ESR 14A]

We can rely on MIs \"in good faith\" [ESR 14A again]. Meaning if we follow them, any resulting problems are not our responsibility.... provided we have taken reasonable care and not just followed them blindly.

And if we rely on them, we have to attach a copy to our CoC.[ESR 66]

suggest close reading of these MIs, to see whether they say an RCD must be used, or whether it\'s more if an RCD is used, it should be of a particular type.

I can\'t imagine that the heat pump wants RCD protection, or that warranty would really be an issue. But (mis?)translation can be a funny thing.

RCDs mixed with VFDs can be a problem for some sites. As VFDs become more common you find small ones everywhere, including on items plugged-in.
And while NZ does not generally require RCDs for sockets on non-residential installations, remember 2.6 isn\'t the only part of the book that calls for RCDs. Some of those sockets are in wet areas.