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Posted By Topic: stainless steel bench earthing

rarrar
Jun 10 2015 19:21

today i had a new large stainless bench that needs an earth, i\'ve run a new 6mm and there was nowhere to termintae it, contacted the supplier and they said to use a pk screw through the stainless and that will do....
It\';s not good enough for me, i\'ve always either had a lug point attached where i can put a bolt, nut and lockwasher, a spade terminal etc.
how many other people are doing it there way, and does the law even allow it to be secured under a pk screw?
   

AlecK
Jun 10 2015 19:35

\"oday i had a new large stainless bench that needs an earth,\"

Why?
   

Sarmajor
Jun 10 2015 19:55

Yes, why does it need to be earthed?

I would never ask the bench builder about how to do the job. I would use a stainless steel bolt, washers and nut type of fixing for this job.
   

rarrar
Jun 10 2015 23:41

because it\'s two meters square.
   

rarrar
Jun 10 2015 23:43

sorry sarmajor, meant to add that there was timber behind the part where they said to pk screw it all, and this wont be acessable when the bench is in place either
   

blair
Jun 11 2015 08:24

but the question is does it have copper water pipes and waste pipes that introduce a pathway to the earthing system.
   

AlecK
Jun 11 2015 08:39

My van is bigger than 2 m2, So\'s the roof of the house. What any of that has to do with installation wiring rules in general, and earthing in particular, is beyond me.


There used to be a rule requiring earthing / bonding of s/s benches, and at one stage there was a lower size limit so that a simple drain tray attached to a sink was exempt.
But all of that was revoked long ago.
1993 it stopped being a requirement.
2003 it stopped even being cited guidance.

If you work to today\'s rules (Section 5), you\'ll save yourself a lot of hassle

   

EricB
Nov 10 2018 11:21

I know this is now an old subject, but I have just had a building inspector refuse to sign off a construction job because the SS benches to not have any earth bonding.
The waste and piping are all plastic. There is no connection between the Taps and ground.
I am writing to his boss to inform them that not only are they wrong, but are dabbling in a profession that they have extremely limited knowledge of.
Is there not anyone in Wellington who can inform the Territorial Authorities that this is not their business?

   

Tommy
Nov 10 2018 13:13

So if it is copper pipes to the stainless bench is it fine to bond the water pipes running to the bench
   

DougP
Nov 10 2018 16:50

I feel your pain.
They frequently overstep their authority. I\'ve had them remove the owners COC copy from site on some jobs.

See how you get on with the persons boss. Otherwise, do you have a local inspector that you use that could back you up?
   

gregmcc
Nov 10 2018 18:12

I think a nicely worded letter to the council concerned the building inspector, and CC in the building inspector advising them that the Building inspector (BI)should see his was out of electrical issues as he is not qualified or registered or carrying a practicing license for this particular trade, If the BI wants to be involved then maybe a formal complaint from him to the EWRB should be in order or otherwise there will be a complaint made to the EWRB regarding him acting as an electrical inspector for which he is not qualified or authorised to do.
   

AlecK
Nov 15 2018 12:06

Under the Building Act. a BI is entitled to take an interest in electrical matters IF - and (almost) only if - the electrical work was included on the original application for building consent. Which TLA's often try to hoodwink people into putting on the application, by asking which tradesperson is going to be doing the electrical work. If the owner answers (not knowing that they don't have to); the work becomes part of the BI's job.

BUT all they are then entitled to is a copy of the ESC (used to be the CoC, but changed by ESrs amendment when ESCs wre introduced, and they are REQUIRED to accept an ESC as certifying that the electrical work complies with clause G9(electricity) of the Building Code.

That takes care of earthing / bonding and any other purely electrical matters.
However there are other clauses of the BC that relate to electrical work less directly, and the ESC doesn't - for example - certify compliance with G4 ventilation or G8 artificial lighting.

   

EricB
Nov 24 2018 18:29

I had a reply from the BI himself saying that the TA has always insisted that SS Benches are to be bonded, and that the TA Codes have not changed in many years. He added that they don’t care what other codes from the trades out there say, even if they have been altered over the years.
What I did find interesting was his last words; “that to keep the customer happy why don’t I just earth the benches’ so the TA can issue their CCC.”
Am I correct in believing the earth bonding was removed when there is metallic contact with the earth mass, because in certain situations an electrical hazard could develop? I personally can see that occurring in some situations.
DougP. I have sent an email to this BI’s senior. Still awaiting a reply from them. Maybe it is because I also pointed out that they “shall” accept my Safety sign off as stated in G9 of the NZ Building Code. I said it does not say it “may” be a method of complying.
We do have an Electrical Inspector locally, who though very young, always argue backs when I say it is not that way in the Wiring Rules. He always states “it is good trade practice”.

   

DougP
Nov 24 2018 18:41

Good trade practice is a matter of opinion. And I'm guessing that your opinion has many years more experience.
   

pluto
Nov 24 2018 19:50

Does the bench have an electrically operated wastmaster in the sink? if so, the sink will be earthed by the wastmaster.

If all the plumbing H & C water and waste is done in plastic thee is very little point in earthing the sink.
   

AlecK
Nov 25 2018 11:57

The point is that a TA (acting as a BCA) simply does NOT have the authority to "require" bonding. And they can't require bonding under any other clause of NZBC. The ONLY thing they can require under clause (G9 from memory ) Electricity is copies of CoC(s), RoI(s) & ESC(s); and they MUST accept an ESC as proving compliance with clause. Not only that, they don't get any electrical certs as of right, they have to ask for them; and can be charged (reasonably)for them.

What we have is a bunch of BIs who are generally ex-builders & ex-plumbers; with typically zero knowledge or experience of electrical matters. And leaky homes showed that, on average, they were not much cop even at their own stuff. Being caught with their pants so badly down is why they've all started insisting on producer statements for just about everything.

We - & gas fitters - can be very glad that the Building Act exempts most "energy work" from being under the Building Consent process.


   

EricB
Nov 25 2018 12:44

Thanks DougP.

Pluto, all wastes and piping are plastic.

I have asked this earlier, but no answer, probably because of my poor grammar the first time I asked.
Was the mandatory bonding of SS Benches removed from the Wiring Rules many years back because in certain situation it was found that a Potential Electrical Hazard could occur?
Not only with the TA Building Inspector am I having an issue, but I still find many Electricians claim that it is a “must be” requirement to bond SS Benches. They very surprised when shown Fig 5.4 and fig 5.5 in section 5 of the present Wiring Rules. Unless you were a person on that Standards Committee you probably wouldn't know. I am hoping some person may know why. If nothing else it just increases ones knowledge.

   

Sarmajor
Nov 25 2018 15:01

If the Inspector is any kind of good he will be keeping current with the Regs and Standards that apply to the areas that he inspects in and refusing work outside his competence.

It is unacceptable that electricians are having to school Inspectors on the most basic aspects of the standards.

Earthing is one of the fundamental areas of a High Risk Inspection of Mains and nowhere does it say that the Inspector gets to Inspect the earthing of bench tops. It is simply outside the scope of a mains inspection.



   

DougP
Nov 26 2018 11:13

Here's a link to en ECANZ answer on the subject.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A-pDv74fYy3zh6a3hfGxGYUrh50AoFvS/view?usp=sharing
   

toyoto
Nov 26 2018 13:01

That link explained it very well, it reads like someone on here wrote it too.
   

DougP
Nov 26 2018 13:31

Yes it reads exactly as if a local has written it.. saves him writing it all again anyway..

The only thing that doesn't seem to be covered is where 5.6.2.5 says "any part of the earthing system". Which as far as I know, most electricians seem to go to the earth conductor at the nearest power point - Well those that actually know the requirement exists of course.
   

EyesEars
Nov 28 2018 16:11

Master Electricians (ECANZ) have heaps of these on their Member only site, great resource for the member. Always a little more in depth than on here.