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Posted By Topic: homeowner PEW

Rhino
Sep 23 2016 15:46

What electrical work is a unlicensed or homeowner allowed to do ? can they do work for them selves that is above 50 VAC and above 120V ripple free DC? Thasnks
   

AlecK
Sep 23 2016 16:21

ESR 57
   

Andrew
Sep 23 2016 17:14

in conjunction with schedule 1 (not all LV work is Prescribed Electrical Work)
   

Rhino
Sep 26 2016 09:17

ESR 57 refers to ECP51 which only talks about 230V. Correct me if im wrong but for new wiring at 230V the work needs to be inspected by an inspector? what if the new wiring is not 230V but low voltage eg 150VDC ? does that still require an inspection.
As if it was extra low voltage i assume it there is no need for inspection..
   

AlecK
Sep 26 2016 10:01

1
"ESR 57 refers to ECP51 which only talks about 230V."

Under Section 79 of the Act, homeowners are only allowed to work on their own home, and the supply will be nominally 230V.
ESR 28 specifies that any supply between 200 & 250 V ac must be at "standard low voltage" which is 230 V for single phase.


2
"Correct me if im wrong but for new wiring at 230V the work needs to be inspected by an inspector?"

S 79(1)(e): "the work is, before connection to power supply tested and certified, in accordance with regulations, by a registered person who holds a practising licence issued under this act that authorises that person to test & certify prescribed electrical work"

The requirement that that person hold an Inspector PL comes from the ECP.

So yes, there has to be an "inspector"; but no the work doesn't need to be "inspected" in the way High risk PW needs to be inspected.


3
" what if the new wiring is not 230V but low voltage eg 150VDC ? does that still require an inspection."

Both 230 V and 150 V are LV. So no difference.
But there is no possibility of any homeowner's residence being supplied at 150V; because SLV is 230V and all supplies must be at SLV

It can't require "inspection" because there simply is no requirement for "inspection" other than for high risk PEW.


4
"As if it was extra low voltage i assume it there is no need for inspection."

same again, there is no requirement for "inspection" at LV, and same for ELV.

However ELV work that is PEW must still be tested, certified, & connected by an authorised person, and the ECP says that must be an inspector.

That said, difficult to come up with any ELV PEW that would be done on a domestic residence.

However ELV, regardless of whether PEW or not, still must comply with Wiring Rules [ESR 59]

-----------------

Where are you going with this?
Trying to avoid having some homeowner wiring checked?
Or found some strange installation by a homeowner and wondering where it fits?
Or just idly speculating?

   

Andrew
Sep 26 2016 11:12

The requirement for an inspector PL is also in ESR 57.
   

AlecK
Sep 26 2016 12:41

True; under (3)(e) installing, extending, and altering subcircuits.
Which means that only SOME homeowner PEW needs an inspector.


But the point is the "inspector" is NOT required to "inspect"; they are required to "test & certify".

BIG difference.

   

Sarmajor
Sep 26 2016 13:27

Which means that the "Inspector" will issue a COC/ESC and not an ROI for the completed work.
   

Andrew
Sep 26 2016 13:39

I should've phrased that as "...an inspector PL (but not an inspection)..."
   

Rhino
Sep 26 2016 16:49

The homeowner "well tenant actually" still classed as the homeowner i think.
Has put in new wiring for solar panels to a solar controller to charge a battery. then from the battery to an inverter.( with no load on it at the moment.
There are 4 panels in series each with an open voltage of 45VDC which is 45 X 4 which has a potential of 180VDC Which is above 120 VDC therefore it is no longer ELV but LV. Will the wiring/installation then require an inspection?
   

AlecK
Sep 26 2016 17:21

1
"The homeowner "well tenant actually" still classed as the homeowner i think."


S 79(1) says otherwise: "The owner of any pemises that are occupied, or intended to be occupied, by tat person as a residence for that person and members of that person's family, may ..."

So no; tenant's can't use the "homeowner" exemption.
Nor can landlords.


2
"Has put in new wiring for solar panels to a solar controller to charge a battery. then from the battery to an inverter.( with no load on it at the moment.
There are 4 panels in series each with an open voltage of 45VDC which is 45 X 4 which has a potential of 180VDC Which is above 120 VDC therefore it is no longer ELV but LV. "

Correct, the array is LV. And presumably so is the battery.

The installation of a PV array, including the downlead, in an installation is PEW and must be done by a licenced person.

Even if it the person was the homeowner, the work doesn't come within any of the descriptions in ESR 57, so the homeowner exemption cannot apply.



3
"Will the wiring/installation then require an inspection? "

Yes, for the array, because it's high risk PEW as per ESR 6A.
Not for the battery; and not for the inverter (unless it's a grid-connect type)

There is only one possible argument against the above: that the array isn't "in an installation".
I think very difficult to make that pig fly;
and even if it flutters is ears particularly hard, it would only affect the inspection aspect (being high risk) not the fact of the work being PEW as per Schedule 1.

------------------
The next question is: what is on the output of the inverter?
LV cicuits?
a socket outlet?
or a changeover switch (alternative supply)?

   

SteveH
Sep 26 2016 17:25

79 Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

(1)

The owner of any premises that are occupied, or intended to be occupied, by that person as a residence for that person, or for that person and members of that person’s family, may do any electrical wiring work, or assist in doing any electrical wiring work, in relation to those premises, if—

79 appears to limit homeowner work to the "owner" of the home/installation, doesn't mention "tenants", so they can't use 79 to do PEW on their rented accommodation.


   

Andrew
Sep 26 2016 17:49

S79 (3) makes it clear who qualifies as the owner, so this situation is in breach of the law.
   

Rhino
Sep 26 2016 21:07

What if the homeowner was to do it would it still be a breach of the law ? And at this stage nothing is connected to the out out of the invertor
   

Sarmajor
Sep 26 2016 21:29

Regulation 79 details exactly what electrical work the house me owner can do and installing solar systems is not on the list.

The Electrical Safety Regulations 2010 are available for download here:
http://www.legislation.co.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763501.html

   

ShaneR
Sep 27 2016 08:09

"But the point is the "inspector" is NOT required to "inspect"; they are required to "test & certify".

BIG difference."



Interesting



57 e (ii)
"the work is ***tested and certified*** in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000, before being connected to a power supply, by a person authorised to inspect mains work."


so..........

When an inspector comes to test and certify work done by the home owner he can only use section 3000 8.3? e.g. he can't look at other stuff?

   

AlecK
Sep 27 2016 10:11

Rhino:
As per my point 2 above and Sarmajor's post, a homeowner is limited to the kinds of PEW listed in ESR 57.
NOTHING else.

read the definition of "installation" in the act. I'm assuming this property has a point of supply; so it includes all fittings beyond POS that form part of a system that is used to convey electricity to a point of consumption, or used to generate or store electricity.

Even with nothing on the output; this lot is clearly "part of a system" .

Whether you treat it as part of the main grid-supplied installation, or as a standalone installation; it's still a system for generating, storing, and conveying electricity.
-------------------

Shane:
Nothing in that requirement limits the inspector to Section 8 only.

Section 8 is simply the minimum amount of testing required; as clearly stated in 8.1.1.

In order to certify that the work is safe and compliant, EVERY applicable aspect of Part 2 needs to be checked.
Typically licensed workers don't need to do as much checking, because they know what they did and how they did it.
Not the case for homeowner work; eg the inspector cannot know whether the cables are 50 mm from wall surfaces unless that aspect is checked. And yes, I picked this example because it isn't specifically in Section 8.




   

Rhino
Sep 27 2016 11:18

Ok thanks for that so they are not authorized to do that work at all. Which is what i thought.
   

ShaneR
Sep 27 2016 11:21

"In order to certify that the work is safe and compliant, EVERY applicable aspect of Part 2 needs to be checked.
Typically licensed workers don't need to do as much checking, because they know what they did and how they did it.
Not the case for homeowner work; eg the inspector cannot know whether the cables are 50 mm from wall surfaces unless that aspect is checked. And yes, I picked this example because it isn't specifically in Section 8."



Interesting



In my mind to fully agree with your interpretation regulation 57 should have read.


...the work is ___*inspected*, tested and certified___ in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000, before being connected to a power supply, by a person authorised to inspect mains work.


I'm not sure how you going to "test" for nail clearances.



You can certainty "inspect" for nail clearances.



I think an inspector should be able to look at other things but as has been pointed out in other posts their scope for inspection can be limited to the job requirements?








   

Rhino
Sep 27 2016 11:28

In a PV system that operates with a combination of ELV and LV the system must be installed to comply with the standards
This is also a little off the main topic but energy safety states ;


AS/NZS 3000 and AS/NZS 5033. The work on the ELV-DC side of the system is not PEW, therefore will not require certification or inspection. However the work on the LV-alternating current (AC) side of the system, including the inverter, is PEW and will require certification. If this PV system is an independent supply and the inverter is not paralleled to a mains supply it will not require an inspection.


"If this PV system is an independent supply and the inverter is not paralleled to a mains supply it will not require an inspection."

So if the PV system is at Low voltage is will be classed as High Risk and require an inspection. However if it is a stand alone PV system with LV (still classed as high risk ) it no longer requires and inspection ???

this must be incorrect?

   

Sarmajor
Sep 27 2016 19:49

A standalone installation with a LV PV system and LV inverter output system requires inspection.

The PV system is high risk and the mains installation is also high risk.

Just because the mains is derived from an inverter does not make the "mains work" not high risk. The AC LV installation requires inspection just as if it was derived from the mains or a standalone generator.

I know that someone will immediate post that if the solar installation is below the thresholds set in 5033 it is not high risk, but the lower limits set in 5033 only apply to portable systems.
   

Andrew
Sep 28 2016 10:20

If a PV array is below the thresholds for portable systems in 5033 then it's also below the maximum voltage for ELV, so an LV PV system will always be above the 5033 thresholds.
   

Rhino
Sep 28 2016 10:31

if a pv system is above 50volt and/ or??? 240W it must comply with 5033 however if the whole system is at ELV . Does that mean there no need for inspection as not PEW or high risk and no need for an electrician?
   

Andrew
Sep 28 2016 10:35

Also worth mentioning that whether or not 5033 applies doesn't affect whether the work is high risk. High risk work is covered in ESR 6A, 5033 is covered in ESR 60, and neither regulation refers to the other.
   

Andrew
Sep 28 2016 10:43

No need for an electrician if you're not doing anything above ELV (i.e. no inverter), but the person doing the work still needs to comply with the law - so if you're wiring your house at 48V off a fixed PV array you still need to comply with 3000 and 5033, as well as ensuring you meet the requirements around electrically safe works and installations.
   

Rhino
Sep 28 2016 10:49

Ok thanks Andrew that answers the question