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Posted By Topic: Is RCD required in this situation?

Daniel2017
Jun 17 2017 22:20

I would like to convert an existing switch (used for heater control, but the heater has been disconnected) to a power outlet. I understand that a new outlet would require a RCD to be installed. But does this rule apply in my case as I am re-using the existing electrical wiring?

Am I legally required to install a RCD?

Thanks
Daniel
   

ppaw1965
Jun 18 2017 01:47

Is it residential? Is a new outlet being installed when one wasn't there before? Rules would say yes.
I don't understand why people try to find loopholes with this. 20 plus years ago first thing I did was to install RCDs in my house when I moved in. Within the week it tripped twice. 3yo stuck his his hand in the toaster and turned it on the first time. A few days later filled up the outlet in the bathroom with water. Why would you not want them. Cheaper than a funeral
   

Daniel2017
Jun 18 2017 08:47

Yes, it is residential. It is just that the electrician quoted me $450 for the installation of the RCD on the switchboard. And I was just wondering if it is necessary.

Thanks for your confirmation.
   

DougP
Jun 18 2017 09:59

Yes the RCD is required.

But the electrician who quotes $450 for the work could be replaced with one phone call.
   

Daniel2017
Jun 18 2017 13:20

DougP:

Thanks for your reply. What did you mean by replacing the electrician with one phone call?
   

michael
Jun 18 2017 13:27

He means that sparky is a robbing bastard.
   

gregmcc
Jun 18 2017 14:26

A socket RCD would be the ideal replacement
   

DougP
Jun 18 2017 15:15

$450 is very expensive if that's just the extra cost to install the RCD on the switchboard.

That is probably expensive even to do the whole job.
   

Daniel2017
Jun 18 2017 16:38

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Just to give you a full picture,

The quote was for install a 32A RCD on the switchboard, wire the RCD to two exiting power circuits and one lighting circuit.

I live in a old house, currently only the bathroom has RCD outlet installed.
   

SparkyJoe
Jun 18 2017 16:38

Where are you located, maby someone on here could quote you? alternatively just get more quotes.
   

Sarmajor
Jun 18 2017 19:51

A 32 amp RCD? Not sure if I have ever seen one of them.

Wish I could get $450 to fit a power point and install an RCD on a switchboard.

Best cost solution is to just fit an RCD power point.
Best solution to improve overall installation safety is an RCD on the switchboard covering additional power and lighting circuits.

I would get a couple of other quotes before proceeding.
   

Daniel2017
Jun 18 2017 21:03

Thank you all for the comments. I will get another quote.

Wish you all a good night. :-)
   

rarrar
Jun 19 2017 06:59

an rcd on the board adds $126.50 to my jobs if quoted, but less if charge up
   

dave99
Jun 19 2017 07:21

450 might be to cheap as the guy might have to travel over an hour each way to the job and deal with the asbestos board etc, we don't known what else might be needed but not listed on the quote.
   

Sarmajor
Jun 19 2017 17:32

No need to deal with an asbestos board if there is one.
Perfect reason to use a socket RCD.

If the quote is accepted then anything the electrician left out is his problem, not the customers.
   

mowgli
Jun 19 2017 20:51

An RCD is being installed where none existed before. The RCD is the origin of a new circuit so everything in that circuit must comply with current rules. Old house = replace the SERFS. The GPO circuits will likely comply without alteration. The lighting circuit is likely to require a PEC. Therefore the quote may include upgrading protevtive devices and replacing the conductors in the lighting circuit. I wouldn't second guess a quote without checking the installation myself.
   

Sarmajor
Jun 19 2017 21:13

Mowgli,
The original question was in regard to replacing a heater control switch with a socket outlet.
It is perfectly acceptable to replace the switch with an RCD socket outlet.

You appear to have read the short paragraph in 2.6.3.1about protecting final subcircuits and mainpulated it into requiring an RCD at the switchboard for this application.

There is no requirement to protect the final subcircuit any more than it is protected now. It is safe and in service we assume. But what you must do is ensure that the socket outlet is RCD protected. Hence the installation of a n RCD socket outlet.

If you fit an RCD at the switchboard you open up the whole can of worms as you correctly point out.
   

daniel2
Jun 19 2017 21:14

Most of the time, if I am installing a new socket outlet in a house where is no RCD protection anywhere I install a 6 way enclosure on or next to the main switchboard and install a 40a, 30mA RCCB and appropriate MCBs (up to 3). I find that owners generally require extra outlets in the future, so it is cost effective. T

The PDL 691 RCDs are unattractive and are restricted to one outlet. Also, I've had situations where I've been called out to a job where there's been "no power" in a particular area of the house to find that a PDL 691 RCD had tripped (accidentally perhaps) behind a couch or in the laundry or bathroom and the tenant or owner couldn't find anything blown and tripped on the main switchboard until I pointed it out. In my opinion, they're not worth the hassle.

PDL 691 RCDs are great for one dedicated socket outlet in renos in a bathroom. Other than that they are not worth the time.
   

mowgli
Jun 19 2017 22:01

Daniel2 the original poster clarified their situation several posts later. The quote is to move three existing circuits onto a new RCD. They also mentioned an existing RCD outlet in a bathroom.
   

mowgli
Jun 19 2017 22:02

Sorry Daniel2 that comment was meant for Sarmajor
   

mowgli
Jun 19 2017 22:06

Sarmajor, I think the can of worms is wide open here and this possibly explains the quoted price.
   

pluto
Jun 20 2017 10:54

daniel2 Jun 19 2017 21:14

Your comment (part only)

The PDL 691 RCDs are unattractive and are restricted to one outlet. Also, I've had situations where I've been called out to a job where there's been "no power" in a particular area of the house to find that a PDL 691 RCD had tripped (accidentally perhaps) behind a couch or in the laundry or bathroom and the tenant or owner couldn't find anything blown and tripped on the main switchboard until I pointed it out. In my opinion, they're not worth the hassle.

PDL 691 RCDs are great for one dedicated socket outlet in renos in a bathroom. Other than that they are not worth the time.

My comment
If you look carefully in the manufacturers instructions you will find that you are able to supply additional socket outlets from the socket outlet RCD (SRCD). The manufacturer covers the outgoing terminals for other socket outlets, as if the incoming supply is connected to these terminals, the SRCD will be destroyed.

The AS/NZS 3000 revision (when cited in NZ) will require the labeling of remote SRCDs to assist the homeowner and electricians that there are other RCDs fitted in the electrical installtion. This requirement could be adopted now as a good trade practice.
   

pluto
Jun 20 2017 10:57

Further to my above message, the labeling for the remote SRCD will be required on the switchboard providing the supply to the SRCD.
   

Safaa
Jun 20 2017 12:08

Is RCD required in Heat pumps circuits? Thanks
   

pluto
Jun 20 2017 12:21

In a domestic installation and locations that are domestic in nature, see AS/NZS 3000 clause 2.6.3.1 (i), (ii) or iii) for details, and connected by a socket outlet a 30 mA RCD is required.

If connected by installation wiring directly to the heat pump terminals and all other locations not detailed above, NO RCD is required.
   

AlecK
Jun 20 2017 12:55

"the labeling for the remote SRCD will be required on the switchboard providing the supply to the SRCD."

Not "required", only recommended. The word used is "should"