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Posted By Topic: Double outlet 10A max

mowgli
Jan 29 2018 15:51

Came across a double socket outlet with integrated usb in a big box outlet store today. The whole fitting wad rated max 10A 2400W. Is this legit? A PDL double outlet is 10A each outlet.
   

DougP
Jan 29 2018 16:02

Are you sure about the PDL rating?
   

mowgli
Jan 29 2018 16:12

Maybe not. The PDL has 10A embossed onto each outlet. This one didn't. Only noticed a max rating on the rear and printed on the packaging.
   

DougP
Jan 29 2018 16:54

There's nothing in the PDL specifications that say they are 10A each outlet for a double.

I thought there was a previous thread that decided they were 10A total - even though I pointed out that it says 10A on each socket.

Personally, I don't see how they can't be 10A per outlet. That should be what they are designed for.
   

mowgli
Jan 29 2018 17:02

Agreed. The max demand (informative) guidance considers a double outlet as two 10A single outlets (table C1 note h)
   

pluto
Jan 31 2018 22:57

The 10 amp markin on each socket is only show that a 10 amp plug is able to be fitted. It is a requirement of AS/NZS 3112 the standard to which all socket outlets must be made to before being approved for sale (they are a high risk item).

The nax current rating of the whole socket outlet fitting will depend on the size of the internal busbars from the installation wiring connection terminals to the socket pin connetions, and in the case of the active via the control or function switch.
   

AlecK
Feb 01 2018 09:00

socket outlets to "3112" are required to be marked with their current rating, so that the marking is visible when the socket is in place (ie on the front, not the back). The Standard is about ensuring that plugs & sockets match, and it treats each individual socket separately - Apart from ensuring that there's enough distance between adjacent sockets, there's nothing in it about combination units with multiple socket outlets in a single fitting.

So it follows that each socket of a double, or a quadruple, is rated at the marked current. It doesn't necessarily follow that a multi-socket fitting is rated to carry the combined current of all the sockets.

Max demand calcs are not a sound basis for assessing the actual rating of a multi-socket fitting. They're not intended for that purpose. But counting each socket within a fitting as a separate socket is consistent with the way "3112" treats them; but more importantly is logical for assessing max demand: the more sockets there are, the more load there is likely to be on the circuit.
Noite also that having counted up all these sockets, the max demand tables don't require us to provide a circuit to carry full rating to all of them at once - we apply diversity and assess the max demand much lower.

An argument could be made WRT multiple-socket fittings being not fit for purpose if not rated for total rating of sockets included, but that would require a quad socket to be capable of carrying 40A. And if we're allowed to claim diversity for our cables, then surely fitting manufacturers should be allowed to apply diversity to their multi-socket fittings?

If you want to be absolutely sure of supplying full 10A to every socket, you either need to find the fitting's total rating, or just fit singles.
   

TheDon
Feb 01 2018 10:02

A Check of PDL's SDOC for a 692 double socket says 10A , so with the lack of any other info you would have to assume the max rating is 10A.
   

AlecK
Feb 01 2018 16:25

it's an interesting discussion, but not something we would normally have to worry about - as long as we do our max demand correctly 9by ANY of the acceptable methods, and comply with the formula:
MD
   

benben
Feb 01 2018 16:59

whats to stop a customer plugging in two 10amp appliances? nothing...

so if it malfunctions due to running at over 10 amps then its a unsafe product,

i would be the would be safe to run at over 10 amps. if they arn't then this whole country is at fire risk


   

mowgli
Feb 02 2018 10:23

Pluto said "The 10 amp markin on each socket is only show that a 10 amp plug is able to be fitted. It is a requirement of AS/NZS 3112 the standard to which all socket outlets must be made to before being approved for sale (they are a high risk item)."

I don't have access to 3112. Does this mean that a socket without the 10A marking is non-conforming? See image attached. I wonder if they have SDOCs to support the sale?
   

mowgli
Feb 02 2018 10:34

Actually I do have access to 3112 though the EWRB subscription. I'll see if I can answer my question.
   

mowgli
Feb 02 2018 10:46

AS/NZS 3112 3.13 Socket Outlets, Marking

3.13.1 Every socket-outlet shall be marked with...(b) the current rating in amperes.

3.13.2 The marking ... shall be located ... (c) so that it is visible when the [socket-outlet] is fixed in position and all covers are in place...

Looks like a fail to me.
   

rarrar
Feb 02 2018 10:48

sounds pretty simple, a ten amp plug is rated to 10 amps and can draw that, any fitting tat it plugs into must be able to supply that, although does it come down to circuit protection being required to be 10 amps, wouldn't think so as there could be multiple plugs on one circuit, what brand is it?
   

DougP
Feb 02 2018 13:07

The question isn't whether each socket is rated at 10A, which it must be. But whether a double fitting can handle 2 X 10A load.

I can't find anything in manufacturer data to indicate that they are.
   

AlecK
Feb 02 2018 13:38

And there's nothing in "3112" on that point.
I can find no direct requirement anywhere else either.
The fact that diversity is permitted for calculating MD suggests no requirement at all.
So all hinges on "fit for purpose", and if you think you're pushing it you probably are - in which case use singles and remove the doubt.