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Posted By Topic: Stand alone Inverter IEC compliance

Rhino
Jan 31 2018 22:59

as/nzs 5033 -3.4.1 states grid tie inverters need to comply with IEC 62109-2 - 4.3.11 states inverters need to comply with 62109-1 and "additionally 62109-2" Question if it was an Off grid stand alone inverter does the inverter only need to comply with 62109-1 NOT -2? ( no references in 4509. )

Also if you had a grid tie inverter later added on and coupled with the stand alone inverter would they both need to comply with iec 62109-2 or just the inverter that is inverter that is directly connected to the array---"All PV arrays connected to grid interactive inverters shall use inverters complying with
IEC 62109-2-"
   

pluto
Feb 01 2018 07:51

Rhino Jan 31 2018 22:59

Introduction comments

What you have discovered is the problems that the NZ regulatory system brings in the retention of older standards remaining cited well beyond their best use by date and the ability for standards to remain up to date in an area were technology is moving forward at a very high rate of change. For example AS/NZS 4509 ws drafted over 10 years ago and IEC 62109 did not exist at that stage.

AS/NZS 5033 has reference to AS/NZS 62109 as it was amended and updated in recent times. And AS/NZS 5033 is about to be further amended and released for public comments soon.

The standards process is very hard presed to all the PV standards up to date.

Your comment 1
as/nzs 5033 -3.4.1 states grid tie inverters need to comply with IEC 62109-2 - 4.3.11 states inverters need to comply with 62109-1 and "additionally 62109-2" Question if it was an Off grid stand alone inverter does the inverter only need to comply with 62109-1 NOT -2? ( no references in 4509. )

My comment 1
As cited by AS/NZS 4509 in ESR 2010 a IEC 62109 inverter, if standalone would not need to be IEC 62109 compliant.

Your comment 2
Also if you had a grid tie inverter later added on and coupled with the stand alone inverter would they both need to comply with iec 62109-2 or just the inverter that is inverter that is directly connected to the array---"All PV arrays connected to grid interactive inverters shall use inverters complying with IEC 62109-2-"

My comment 2 The ESR 2010 reg on older installed equipment would apply and it could be considered the older non IEC 62109 inverter could remain in service with the new inverter having to comply with IEC 62109.

I would not recommend that as the two inverters (old and New) would be unlikely to have the performance required by IEC 62109 and in turn if the installation was still standalone only, the current AS/NZS 4509 is the only cited standalone standard, but if AS/NZS 5033 (PV arrays) will require IEC 62109 performance and safety outcomes it is un likely the mix of inverters would deliver the aafety outcomes required.

   

pluto
Feb 01 2018 08:03

In the 3rd paragraph it should read

"The standards process is very hard pressed to keep all of the PV standards up to date.

An additional note

In AU all "grid connect" inverters are now required to be of the Multi Mode Inverter (MMI) type som if use a grid connect inverter you may be buying old stock that can't be sold and installed in AU. The CEC (AU) approvals list has reflected this for almost the last 18 months.
   

Rhino
Feb 01 2018 23:42

Yes ok but if the stand alone system had a solar array that was above 240w ie falls into 5033 as well as 4509 doesn’t it ?
62109-1 and 62109-2 are slightly different-2 refers to “ grid interactive inverters , so would it be right to say anything off grid 62109-1 and If grid is involved -2. Existing stand alone -1with grid added later then additional grid tie inverter would need -2?
   

pluto
Feb 03 2018 12:56

Rhino Feb 01 2018 23:42

Your comment 1
Yes ok but if the stand alone system had a solar array that was above 240w ie falls into 5033 as well as 4509 doesn’t it ?

My answer YES

Your comemt 2
62109-1 and 62109-2 are slightly different-2 refers to “ grid interactive inverters , so would it be right to say anything off grid 62109-1 and If grid is involved -2. Existing stand alone -1with grid added later then additional grid tie inverter would need -2?

My answer 2 is NO

Many IEC standards are arranged in a particular manner to cover the generic requirements of a group of electrical equipment (usually this is Part 1 of the standard) and then these generic requirements are modifed or have additional requirments in another standard part to suit the specialsed application detailed in that part.

For example
Taking IEC 62109 Part 1 this gives the generic requirments for electronic power converters (inverters are a sub group) and IEC 62109 part 2 gives the modifications or additional requitrements for grid connect inverters to those detailed in the Part 1 requirements.

Thus, you need both parts of IEC 62109 to get all the requirements for a grid connect inverter. NOTE: Both parts of IEC 62109 can NOT be used independantly.

IEC 62019 is a Standard used for equipment performance comformity approvals.(or SDec)

If you was to purchase a grid connected inverter The test house doing the IEC 62109 certification would have worked through all the tests detailed in Part 1 (excepting those which have been deleted by the part 2 of IEC 62019) + the additional tests added by IEC 62109 part 2 and then will issue (if complies with all tests) a valid test report.

Persons installing PV systems only need to check that if AS/NZS 4509 or AS/NZS 4777.1 or AS/NZS 5033 details that a IEC 62109 certification (or approval) is requiresd that a copy of the Test Report is viewed to ensure that it complies with the Standard stated efore installation in actual installation.
   

Rhino
Feb 08 2018 21:06

4777 5.1
Inverters for use in inverter energy systems with photovoltaic (PV) arrays shall comply with the appropriate electrical safety requirements of IEC 62109-1 and IEC 62109-2, and the requirements within this Standard.

What if the inverter is not connected to PV and is an inverter/charger that is used for a UPS, does it need to comply with -1 and -2 (as it is connected to the grid to charge the batteries upon grid connection, and draw from batteries when grid is lost ) what safety standards are required?

5.1 cntd...
Inverters for use in inverter energy systems that have energy storage (batteries) as the only possible energy source shall comply with the electrical safety requirements of AS 62040.1.1, and the requirements within this Standard.

Inverter /charger used in UPS? grid connected to allow charging function?
   

pluto
Feb 09 2018 10:13

Rhino Feb 08 2018 21:06

Please advise which year issue of AS/NZS 4777 5.1 you are referiing to.

None of my copies of AS/NZS 4777.1 I have refer to the extract you have provided. Or have you quoted from another standard?

Without the correct reference to consider, the point(s) you are making it is not possible to provide the guidance you are seeking.
   

Rhino
Feb 10 2018 18:56

It’s in 4777.2 requirements for grid connected inverter NOT 4777.1 installation of grid tie
   

pluto
Feb 10 2018 21:17

Rhino Feb 08 2018 21:06
Your comment 1
AS/NZS 4777.2 5.1
Inverters for use in inverter energy systems with photovoltaic (PV) arrays shall comply with the appropriate electrical safety requirements of IEC 62109-1 and IEC 62109-2, and the requirements within this Standard.

My comment 1
AS/NZS 4777.2 clause 5.1 was developed after AS/NZS 4777.1 and is making some attempt to cover Multiple Mode Inverters (MMI) a multiple mode inverter is a very different device to a grid connected inverter (which in general, only has one inverter) whereas a MMI could have 2 or more inverters within a common device depending on the ssytem requirements, for example, grid connect inverter and a UPS type inverter and in some some configurations there may be other addditional inverters.

Your comment 2
What if the inverter is not connected to PV and is an inverter/charger that is used for a UPS, does it need to comply with -1 and -2 (as it is connected to the grid to charge the batteries upon grid connection, and draw from batteries when grid is lost ) what safety standards are required?

My comment 2
In general in PV array (to AS/NZS 5033) is the energy source to an inverter complying with IEC 62109 then applies.

Your comemnt 3
4777.2 clause 5.1 cntd...
Inverters for use in inverter energy systems that have energy storage (batteries) as the only possible energy source shall comply with the electrical safety requirements of AS 62040.1.1, and the requirements within this Standard.

Inverter /charger used in UPS? grid connected to allow charging function?

My comment 3
The AS/NZS 4777.1 does NOT currently take in MMI inverters, AS/NZS 4777.2 currently has a very limited treatment (and not complete for most MMI inverter systems)

The second paragraph quoting AS/NZS 62040 UPSs is not completely correct, but it was used to cover The UPS port of a MMI system.

In conclusion
The drafting team have yet to cover MMI inverters and when they do both AS/NZS 4777.1 and 4777.2 will need to have major revision because the MMI inverter is a very flexible device that can be configured in a wide varity of ways, e.g. grid connect port, UPS port just to name 2 major configurations. All configurations are often arranged by software changes in the MMI inverter.
   

pluto
Feb 10 2018 21:21

One addition

MMI inverters can be arranged to have a storage battery port on the MMI inverter in addition to the grid connect and UPS ports detailed above.
   

evanh
Feb 12 2018 11:44

Hehe, "... can be arranged ...", one would certainly hope that all residential multimode inverters actually require a battery!

A multimode without a battery is like the grid without any baseload generation.


   

pluto
Feb 12 2018 15:03

An MMI without a battery is most likely to be considered the same as grid-connect inverter, it depends on the amount of the software control has been enabled.