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Posted By Topic: Placemakers now importing electrical euipment

bakinthegame
May 18 2018 18:30

Had an interesting meeting today....

Been doing a few new builds for a construction company i won\'t name.

Quoted on a couple of apartments recently & submitted a price - apparently was all ok, until i get a call today saying they could save a couple of grand if we went with placemakers.

Meet up with the rep today & this is basically what they are offering....

Placemakers are going to begin importing loads of electrical equipment, crap quality \'Chint\' branded equipment - yay! Exactly what NZ needs - more low quality crap chinese electrics. awesome.

Anyway their gig is to deal with the building companies direct cutting out the sparkies.

The sparky is then presented with a quote from placemakers based on what they think the electric part of the build will cost based on labour & the crap materials they supply.

Sparky then invoices placemakers & gets reimbursed minus materials cost.

So they are basically trying to dictate to us what our prices for new builds are going to be!

I couldn\'t get over it! They are making all the money, we are taking all the risk (especially when we are installing their crap gear) & they are telling us what our labour charges should be!

Where do these guys get off!!???

Anyone else come across this?

Always the poor old sparky getting screwed by these big companies that only care about $$ & churn out crap low quality builds across NZ.

Going to be lots of problems with these builds down the track - & the average joe bloggs has no idea they are buying houses with cheap as chips gear installed.

Just really frustrates me, especially when people are paying so much money for homes these days & then they unwittingly buy a low quality build (usually built & paid for straight off the plans)

Just had to vent - i dont want to have anything to do with the whole thing.
Obviously i want the business but morally i can\'t do it & they are really screwing our profit margins too.

Anyone else had a similar experience???








   

bakinthegame
May 18 2018 18:31

Guess this is the end result of what happens when you sign free trade deals with China....
   

Sarmajor
May 18 2018 19:55

I can’t understand how some companies can make any money doing domestic new builds. We priced some installations for relocatable houses but were informed that we were to expensive by a long margin. We weren’t willing to buy the work so went off and did other things that actually paid good money.

Some of my friends who have electrical companies concentrate their work efforts around repairs and maintenance rather than domestic new builds.

Stuff is always breaking and customers want it fixed now, especially in the manufacturing and dairy industries.

At least one major electrical wholesaler markets Chint gear in NZ. I wonder how they feel about this development.
   

WillJ
May 18 2018 21:33

Chint isn\'t really all that crap, installed a bit of it and i have seen far worse, plus the product warranty is pretty good
   

DougP
May 18 2018 22:13

But does the product warranty cover actual charges for an electrician to replace one item at a time? X 100 items?
   

codaxx
May 19 2018 01:11

I personally,turn down work if shit electrical gear is provided. Someone can literally walk into bunnings and buy crap delta gear e.g double P/P for $8 and then your signing your name on it. No thanks!


I hope that if i turn it down, the next electrician will look at it and turn it down as well, creating a minimum standard for sparkies.

Quick questionn is chint and voltex the same type of gear?
   

bakinthegame
May 19 2018 08:17

I’m sorry but you most be lacking some of your 5 senses if you think Chint is a good brand.

Your eyes confirm it when you look at it.

Your hands confirm it when you touch it.

Your nose confirms it when smoke arises from it.

It’s as crap as it gets IMO.

Voltex looks like it may be slightly better when it comes to switches & sockets but all there other switchgear looks very similar.


   

bakinthegame
May 19 2018 08:24

I was more concerned & amazed that placemakers are trying to dictate to us our labour charges for new builds.

They were trying to convince me this is the way everything is moving & it will be commonplace in a few years & already is in other parts of the country.

Placemakers can suck my........

The only people that will take on these low paying jobs will be crap sparkies prepared to work for nothing for next to no profit, new builds will be for cheap immigrant sparkies or apprentices.

Buy a new build in a massive new sub division for $800-$1.2K - no thank you very much
   

WillJ
May 19 2018 09:06

Placemakers tried this a few years ago with installed heating products and it never got off the ground, so i don\'t think they will gain much traction with this

I never said Chint was top quality, its just better then many of the other cheap brands and I\'m happy to install it, when and where needed

Its not my preferred brand by a long shot

600 series aint what it used to be and have replaced plenty that has gone faulty, just saying
   

codaxx
May 19 2018 11:45

Thats the problem, people working for pennies. I think most sparkies will turn that offer down as its our ticket and lively hood on the line.

Dont let anyone dictate what we charge or what gear we use, we are all here to pay our mortgage and survive each week and maybe in a few years each own a lambo.

   

AndyCpfc
May 19 2018 18:48

Tell them to get someone else,don\'t stoop to their level.They need registered sparks for compliance,this makes my blood boil ,Chint is proper rubbish don\'t even entertain it,had some breakers in uk were basically on off switches,no trip mechanism.
   

daniel2
May 20 2018 11:15

At the end of the day if the client is happy with the product and price and if that’s what they want, then that’s what they get.

From personal experience of installing Chint, Voltex, Goldair and similar products is that the terminal screw has a long thread and takes an age to screw in; the screw bites into the copper and quite often breaks the strands, and the terminal tunnel isn’t long enough to get good enough connection (only 5 mm).
   

SaintAlan
May 20 2018 14:39

The problem here is the traditional pricing structure for domestic work, where sparkies received extraordinary discount on cable and fittings then on-charged \'list prices\' to the customer. The profit on materials meant they under-charged for labour.
Domestic work needs to copy commercial or industrial contracts where parts are often supplied by the customer or charged at schedule rates, and the hourly rate is aligned with costs for work done.
I am surprised the Commerce Commission has never looked at some of the pricing issues in the electrical end of the building industry.
   

ryanm10
May 20 2018 17:01

Interesting - my mate is getting his kitchen done and gave me the Placemakers quote to look at (it was extremely cheap for a kitchen fit out). I couldn\'t see how any sparkies could make any money from the margins ($38 - move and add powerpoint, $90 new hob circuit etc)
Chint gear is junk, but the worst ive seen is stuff branded ISC, absolutely shit house gear with a failure rate to match.
   

dmelectrical
May 20 2018 19:08

Placemakers are owned by Fletchers. I am pretty sure it was Fletchers that hammered down the hourly rate during the Christchurch rebuild so this doesn\'t surprise me.
   

Andrew
May 21 2018 11:32

You should know how much you need to make per hour of on-job time to meet your overall goals for how much work you do and how much income you get, so if someone\'s offering a lower hourly rate or a fixed price that you don\'t think has enough contingency to meet your hourly rate, don\'t take it. No sense getting angry, just look for work that actually pays well.

As far as crap gear goes, if it\'s crap to work with then you need to increase the time you allow for installing it and/or the contingency for \"unforeseen\" problems. If it\'s just not going to last but isn\'t so bad that you have a moral problem with installing it you can always put a comment on your CoC/ESC that might dissuade a future buyer - e.g. \"customer advised about low-quality fittings\", but make sure you don\'t leave yourself liable to defamation charges.
   

toyoto
May 28 2018 21:20

I was working on a new build and a placemakers rep told me all about this great new idea. He said it was a win-win for everyone. I\'m not sure if he was stupid or if he thought i was.

Also he didn\'t say they were importing chint directly, but working with QC Electrics who import it already.
   

DONNY
Aug 09 2019 14:08

Interesting,

Just got asked to match one of these estimates, a builder we used waved it in my face when we got on site.
1) How do I know they even have an electrician to do the work for this estimate? A new low really, essentially they want us to match a make believe estimate made up by some guy at place makers.


   

Sarmajor
Aug 09 2019 17:39

Just heard today about houses being imported from China complete with wiring.

Mate of mine refused to issue an ROI.

Apparently Worksafe are investigating.
   

Boony
Aug 09 2019 18:48

I think this is the great for the consumer. Nothing wrong with a bit of competition In the market place. I work in pricing for PM and yes we do sell chint and I can buy for next to nothing but I’ve kitted my house out with expensive pdl switch gear because I like the look and quality. At the end of the day the consumer picks what they want in house builds and they want cheap switch gear then good on them. To be honest we don’t sell much chint in new build anyway more to the average diy person.
   

SymonS
Aug 09 2019 21:07

And therein lies the problem...
   

bakinthegame
Aug 09 2019 21:12

Boony - it’s not competition - it’s placemakers trying to dictate labour prices & tell us sparkies what to charge.
And flooding NZ with more cheap crap which we have plenty of competition with already without some company trying to force the product on us - which is EXACTLY what your doing.

If your involved In pricing can you please explain how PM come to believe we should be charging $38 for a new powerpoint & $90 for a new 6.0mm hob circuit.

I mean where did you pluck these values from? The electrician annuals from 1973???
   

SymonS
Aug 09 2019 21:14

Simplest way of stopping that bullshit is to refuse to take on the job.

PM will go and find the cheapest rent a monkey they can find, and sooner or later shoot their reputation in the foot when the quality of the job is crap, or some clown burns a house down.

Natural attrition will take care of the problem in its own time.
   

Kingswell
Aug 10 2019 08:09

"Natural attrition will take care of the problem in its own time". Similar to the process in which untreated soft timber gets converted, by rot, back into dirt. Think leaky homes. Then think about how much of the costs of remediating crap gets landed on the innocent citizens (taxpayers, ratepayers) via payouts from councils & Govt, etc etc.
   

GPower
Aug 10 2019 11:39

I think the best solution to this problem is if presented with the chance to do these works for placemakers do your own sums and research and if it does not add up to what you require to make a decent living in our trade, for the work we do and the risk assumed, simply don't do the work. You may find that some people are happy to work for not much but that would more than likely be the businesses that are not around for long as they realise that it is not sustainable. As stated above you should work out what you need to charge and not let them dictate what the price should be. If the two align then great go for it but if they are out either give them an acceptable price or don't do it. They will either have to lift their margins to meet the agreed market standard or have houses with no electrics in them.
   

jasonfoy123
Aug 22 2019 18:44

Personally,flip down work if shit electrical gear is furnished. Someone can actually walk into bunnings and purchase crap delta equipment e.G double P/P for $8 after which your signing your name on it. No thanks!


I desire that if i flip it down, the following Ripple Electrical will have a look at it and flip it down as nicely, growing a minimal wellknown for sparkies.

Quick questionn is chint and voltex the same form of gear?
https://rippleelectrical.co.nz/
   

jasonfoy123
Aug 22 2019 18:47

Personally,flip down work if shit electrical gear is furnished. Someone can actually walk into bunnings and purchase crap delta equipment e.G double P/P for $8 after which your signing your name on it. No thanks!


I desire that if i flip it down, the following Ripple Electrical will have a look at it and flip it down as nicely, growing a minimal wellknown for sparkies.

Quick questionn is chint and voltex the same form of gear?
https://rippleelectrical.co.nz/
   

camel007
Aug 22 2019 21:06

Ask your wholesaler for a comparable product to Placemakers/voltex, JA Russel has Vynco home range which is just as cheap and good quality, not quite the range of 600 series, also online ordering