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Posted By Topic: Freestanding range question

Danz69
Oct 05 2018 18:49

Hi I have just replace a freestanding range for another freestanding range just a quick question about the work done.the old one was hard wired (there is a switch for the range already there) and the new one has just been hard wired in the same way.Should there have been a socket installed as well and should I have been given a coc for the work done as I have had another sparkly come and replace some old wiring (unrelated job) and I got given a coc for the work he did

Thanks for any response
   

Satobsat
Oct 05 2018 19:14

If it was the replacement of a free standing range with another free standing range then it does not require to be fitted with a plug and socket.

He should have issued you an Electrical Safety Certificate, note this may be a combined ECOC/ESC sheet with just the fields relevant to an ESC filled out.
   

rarrar
Oct 06 2018 08:10

any photos of the job? most i do aren't suitable to reconnect as they're done with flexible steel conduit that's past it's use by date mechanically
   

Danz69
Oct 09 2018 14:06

Hi sorry about the late reply here are some pictures
   

Danz69
Oct 09 2018 14:07

And the other picture
   

rarrar
Oct 09 2018 19:07

whoever did these needs reporting asap, they're a rogue and need stopping in their tracks before someone dies.
   

Danz69
Oct 10 2018 08:40

Why?
can you please elaborate on what should have been expected to be done when installing.
   

medistat
Oct 10 2018 09:45

I see you mentioned that a 'Sparkly' did that install.

Strongly suggest that you call a licensed Sparky to come and completely do the job all over.

And call the ERB to inspect it first.
   

dbuckley
Oct 10 2018 10:27

In that second picture am I seeing exposed single cores of a TPS?
   

Andrew
Oct 10 2018 12:07

hard to be sure, but it looks like it's just a separate earth taped to the TPS.
   

yrapasparky
Oct 10 2018 17:05

If that's been done by a sparky then a complaint to the EWRB needs to be done. Too many cowboys getting away with crap like this!!!
   

rarrar
Oct 10 2018 18:03

there is nothing right at all about this, report them or if you've done it yourself get someone in asap to do it right https://www.pgdb.co.nz/app
   

dlink
Oct 10 2018 18:11

ok, hard to tell from these pictures, but obviously there is no cable restraint where the TPS leaves the wall, what else doesnt float your boat ? this looks pretty typical install from these photos.
   

Danz69
Oct 10 2018 21:51

So this is what happened I brought the range from Noel lemmings they offered to drop off,install and take the old one away for $169 they organized for the sparky(he is an apprentice that was working alone) to be here when the range got drop off the wiring was disconnected from the old one and hook up to the new one nothing was change or added to it is a 2 phase setup so my guess is the earth is the single green cable that is taped to the TPS I just want to know if this should have been changed to bring this up to standard / best practice or if it is alright the way it is
   

rarrar
Oct 10 2018 22:07

report it to noel leemings, this stuff must be stopped, and the ewrb, as a consumer you did the right thing, they need to know there's a rogue out there as it's not in their interest either.
   

Ristov
Oct 11 2018 06:54

Still no one has said what is actually wrong with it.
   

rarrar
Oct 11 2018 07:13

photos are too poor to see exactly everything,
   

dlink
Oct 11 2018 08:36

a ESC should have been supplied, and there is no requirement to convert to plug in and socket connection method under this situation, so what is your issue you can see with these photo's rarrar ?
all i can see is a very typical install.
   

Satobsat
Oct 11 2018 11:56

You would have thought he would have at least added some flexible conduit.
   

jasmoon123
Oct 11 2018 19:56

An apprentice can not supply/sign-off an ESC.
   

Sarmajor
Oct 11 2018 21:40

Nothing wrong with an apprentice working alone but it does complicate the certification aspect as only the person connecting can complete the ESC.
   

dlink
Oct 11 2018 21:58

who says an apprentice cannot sign a ESC.
the person who does the connection must be the one who signs the ESC, not their supervisor. if this was the case an apprentice wouldn't be able to do anything other than sweep the floor. its up to the supervisor to supply the correct level of supervision. in this instance we dont know what level of supervision the apprentice was receiving nor what units the apprentice has gained. we have to assume that the apprentice was up for the task and has done the correct testing as per their training. providing the ESC is the apprentices issue here, not the company they work for either - which is another interesting part of our rules we live by.
   

Danz69
Oct 11 2018 22:16

Thank you all for your input I will ask for my ESC and see how that goes down
   

Sarmajor
Oct 12 2018 15:03

For those of you that think a Trainee can’t issue an ESC this may improve your level of knowledge, especially section 7.
Those of you supervising Trainees should also have read this document.

https://www.ewrb.govt.nz/assets/subsite-ewrb/Documents/rules-of-the-board/supervision-trainees-holding-limited-certificate.pdf
   

ryanm10
Oct 12 2018 19:48

Wheres the tilt plate or are there brackets (unseen) to stop the range tilting forward?
   

AlecK
Oct 15 2018 17:05

Looks like unprotected single-insulated conductors to me.
For the ESC, it must be signed & dfated by BOTH the person doing the connection, and (if that person was under supervision) the supervisor [ESR 74A(3)(f)&(g)].
Noting that in this case the supervision referred to can only mean supervision of a trainee, because the other sort of person under supervision isn't allowed near anything that's connecte3d to a supply (like an existing subcircuit) even if it has been isolated.
   

daniel2
Oct 16 2018 13:00

All this back and forth and wasted hot air, here’s a solution: install a range socket and lead. Provide a CoC/ESC.

Problem solved!
   

Satobsat
Oct 16 2018 19:34

Yes fit a plug and socket and add $200 plus to the bill when it is not necessary.
   

AlecK
Oct 17 2018 09:30

Yes a socket & plug would be the "best practice" option; but it's not the minimum acceptable option. If it were me, I'd have asked whether they wanted the future convenience of a plug & socket connection; 'cos that should always be the customer's choice rather than us imposing our ideas on them.

But the OP was asking about the minimum requirement, what "should" have been done (ie whether this work complied with the minimum requirements) and what certification should have been provided.

Satobsat's first answer was 100% for both questions asked initially.

Since then we've seen pics that indicate that the work was even worse (non-compliant); and so far no indication that an ESC was issued.