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Posted By Topic: Lights in roofspace

OctaneOutlaw
Dec 19 2018 12:21

Having a discussion about the installation of batton holders in a roofspace

4.5.1.1 (i) installation not less than 1.8 m above the ground, floor or platform;

Do you define just the building frame and the plasterboard roof as ground, floor or platform?

I feel like because you move around up there and use it as a support within that 1.8m height limit then I assume that 4.5.1.1 (ii) would come into play but people have argued otherwise due to claiming it's not ground, floor or a platform

Just curious of opinion

Thanks
   

OctaneOutlaw
Dec 19 2018 13:15

Or because the entrance to the roofspace is above 1.8m and/or because it requires a tool (ladder or something to open hatch etcetc) then does that make it ok?
   

AlecK
Dec 19 2018 16:27

Of course it's a "platform" even if not a floor. If it's capable of supporting a person, it's a platform (a tee-rail suspended ceiling wouldn't count as a platform).
You only have to read the preamble to understand the reason: the risk is touching live and- in a typical ceiling - almost certainly energised parts. Noting that in 2018 edition item (b)(iii) has been deleted (which now effectively prohibits "hollywood" lights around mirrors)
Below 1.8m the lampholder and lamp must be inside a guard, so a bulkhead type luminaire is OK but a batten holder is not.
   

OctaneOutlaw
Dec 19 2018 16:40

Thank you, that just confirms my belief anyway
   

AlecK
Dec 19 2018 17:13

Probably should have said "If it's
[ permanent and ]
capable of supporting a person, it's a platform".
The fact that someone can use a ladder or scaffold wouldon't require the lights to be lifted.


   

Waynes1
Dec 20 2018 18:13

I've always used a bulkhead light - saves people breaking the bulb with their head.
And the are pretty cheap
   

daniel2
Dec 20 2018 21:56

It seems a bit of a nonsense. What about pendant lights above a kitchen island which are normally head height or lower, some of which are edison screw fittings. Any child could climb onto the bench and poke his or finger into the live part.


   

AlecK
Dec 21 2018 08:19

There's been a similar rule in force for a very long time; so if over-bench pendants are generally "head height or lower": then the people who installed them need to wake their ideas up.
However the bench raises the question of whether it constitutes a "platform". On the face of it, it does
But there's clearly a difference in that it's not part of the bench's purpose to be stood on (by anyone). Whereas if you are installing lights into a ceiling space, there's clearly an intent for people to be in there.

Maybe a wiring Rules FAQ would be in order (most of the old ones have been incorporated into the new edition); but new ones are developed as required.

www.wiringrules.standards.org.au
   

DougP
Dec 21 2018 08:46

You might need to have a word to whoever's answering the questions Alec...

I haven't read them all, but 002/2018

It has been worded in a way that seems to imply that 3.9.4.4(a) must be attempted first, and if there "remains a risk" - then (b) or (c) must be applied.
   

AlecK
Dec 21 2018 12:40

Off topic, but...

The FAQs are adopted by consensus of the entire Commi6ttee, so not a case of one person or a small group being able to put a "spin" on things.

That one clearly states that: " The method of protection of the wiring system may be any one of the three detailed in Clause 3.9.4.4.".

true it also states: "If there remains a risk that the wiring system could be penetrated after the installation of the mechanical protection, the risk has not been prevented and either sub-clause (b) or (c) must be applied." but that wording doesn't assign a prioroty; it simply stating a fact that should be obvious; ie that if you choose option (a); your means of protection must be "adequate" (as the actual rule states). If the cable can still be damaged, clearly the protection isn't good enough" and a different option must be used instead / as well.