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Posted By Topic: pool concrete bonding

benben
Mar 10 2019 20:52

Hey, i have to look into a pool soon, fiber glass insert. Which cant be earthed. but there is a cencrete path surrounding the pool. does this concrete need earting?
   

toyoto
Mar 10 2019 21:45

Yes it does, its within arms reach
   

DougP
Mar 10 2019 22:51

In the current 3000:2007, it doesn't specifically say that the reinforcing in a slab within arms reach must be bonded (3000:2007 5.6.2.6.2). And 5.6.2.6.3 only requires it when the pool structure is conductive.

But this clause has been updated in 3000:2018 as 5.6.2.6.5 to specifically include reinforcing in a concrete slab within arms reach, if electrical equipment is required to be bonded - regardless of the pool being conductive or not.

So it would be best to bond it anyway.
   

toyoto
Mar 11 2019 20:34

It does talk about pool deck reinforcing in 2007 though
   

toyoto
Mar 11 2019 20:35

Whoops, that's only where the pool structure is conductive
   

AlecK
Mar 12 2019 08:29

Bonding may not be required right now, because these clauses are triggered by the presence of a variety of things that may not be there at time the pool structure is installed. But things can change so that bonding this reinforcing becomes required later.
That's why currently cited edition requires a bonding point on a conductive pool regardless of whether or not it's needed at time of installation. 2018 goes further, and requires actual bonding of the conductive pool.
Same principle applies to this non-pool concrete; and since bonding concrete reinforcing is easiest before the pour now's the best time to provide for it. Almost certainly, at some stage it will become necessary for this concrete to be bonded.
Not only that, but absolutely NO harm can come from bonding this concrete now.

The best guide for pool bonding is the 2018 edition. Following that will not result in any non-compliance with cited edition; and there's a good Fig to assist with understanding; c/w cross-references back to the clauses.
   

peter
Mar 12 2019 14:16

when did the bonding of the reinforcing come into play ?
Very difficult to retrospectively bond .
   

DougP
Mar 12 2019 15:17

It was in 3000:1997. And probably earlier versions as well.

The next version I have before that is the EWR's 1976 - so I'm missing some information (if anyone can fill in the blanks?).


   

AlecK
Mar 12 2019 16:49

1997 was the first "3000" for NZ.
Prior to that would be in ERs (1997 & 1993).
No particular rules specific to pools, or to other reo; just high-level outcomes and general requirements.
There was also ECP 25 as a "deemed to comply" reference; but it also had no rules for pools or other reo.

   

peter
Mar 12 2019 18:56

looking at the 1997 NZS3000
702.12.3 and 702.12.3.1
Am i correct to interpret that bonding of concrete reinforcing was only necessary if exposed conductive parts or appliances are in the pool area , or if pool pump is not double insulated .
   

AlecK
Mar 13 2019 10:42

Correct that under that old rule, bonding of the reo was only required if bonding was required under one or more of the three paras of 702.12.3 .
   

benben
Mar 13 2019 20:03

what if the concrete has no reo bars?
   

SymonS
Mar 13 2019 20:37

Then it probably doesnt comply with the building code, NZS3604, and shouldnt get sign off from a building inspector.
   

benben
Mar 13 2019 21:45

Concrete requires reo?? then theres ALOT of non compliant stuff
   

SymonS
Mar 13 2019 21:58

Well, that's a little naive don't you think! It should be pretty obvious even to a sparky that concrete for Any sort of structural support requires reo, and the slab around an in ground pool is certainly no exception.

If its consented work, and pools definitely are, then the work must be done to the building code, just like our work must be done to our codes and standards, and the building code is pretty clear on the requirements for reinforcing, so if your reason for not earthing the reo because it's not there, then the whole pool installation is non compliant from the get go.
   

benben
Mar 13 2019 23:01

decorative path is no structure
   

AlecK
Mar 14 2019 08:17

That's why all my posts have referred to the reinforcing (reo). Technically bonding is only required if the reo is conductive.
And yes there are non-conductive forms; a lot of pre-cast stuff such as coal bins bird baths, etc is reinforced suing fibreglass. And yes sometimes the concrete may have none - unlikely in a poured path, but paving blocks generally don't have any.


   

Waynes1
Mar 14 2019 09:41

Paths and the like don't 'require' reinforcing and most don't have it.
House floors do but paths, drives, patios etc are up to the user.
   

SymonS
Mar 14 2019 21:23

Any concrete work that requires a consent requires reo, and many paths and driveways require a consent.

Argue amongst yourselves as much as you like, but the building code is clear on that!