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Posted By Topic: house inspection companies

rarrar
Mar 18 2019 19:55

it's interesting that our registration board allows many house inspection report companies like homecheck and check home to provide reports into wiring light fittings and power points without any qualifications. Why waste years getting a trade when you can run round with a clip board and advise the world on stuff you know nothing about.....
   

OwenK
Mar 18 2019 20:38

But even registered electricians get things wrong, as in don’t install compliant work. Getting unqualified people to make a decision on electrical installations and pass it as up to standard ...
   

rarrar
Mar 18 2019 21:16

not going to argue that, my point is i must be qualified to ply my trade, these clowns seem to be allowed to represent themselves as having some knowledge and our board thinks it's fine.
   

AlecK
Mar 19 2019 08:32

EWRB has no ability to control that sort of thing. They only have powers over people who do PEW. So can't really blame them for "allowing" anyone to do things that are not PEW. Like house checks. Or electrical design work.


   

rarrar
Mar 19 2019 13:38

i pay a heap for my registration, to the EWRB, why aren't they protecting us from these freeloaders then?
   

AlecK
Mar 19 2019 17:34

That would require a change of status for that sort of work, to make it PEW.
Not something the Board can do.
Only ES can do that - so feel free to lobby them.

Or join an industry org (if you haven't already), and get them to advertise the advantages of people using their members to carry out assessments of existing installations
   

rarrar
Mar 19 2019 18:00

maybe, but how can are they currently allowed to produce a document saying the electrics look ok with zero training?
   

rarrar
Mar 19 2019 18:05

this from habit site--- Both the electrical and plumbing systems are inspected however this is not a detailed assessment -------
bet they aren't using an inspector?
   

gregmcc
Mar 19 2019 18:52

It seems to me that what is needed is for someone to lay a complaint with the EWRB over this (the EWRB can't start their own investigation without an actual complaint from someone.)

These "House Inspection" companies are implying that they are preforming an inspection service, as far as doing an electrical inspection, this is PEW that only an Registered Electrical Inspector can do, but is the average Kiwi going to know this? I doubt it!

So really the only way (as I see it) is a complaint with the EWRB, maybe this will prompt some action from the house inspection companies to either specifically exclude electrical from their "inspections" or push them to have an electrical inspector do a proper inspection - or maybe they will just ignore it and keep on doing what they are doing...
   

dlink
Mar 19 2019 21:36

They wouldn't be able to open a switchboard during their "inspection"
   

AlecK
Mar 20 2019 09:04

The "inspection" being done here is NOT PEW.

The word has two different meanings, one being the ordinary dictionary definition (inspect: to look at closely); which is what a "house inspector" is doing. That's NOT PEW, so EWRB cannot control it in any way.

The other is the very specialist meaning used in ESRs; which is the inspection of high risk PEW required by ESR 70. This particular kind of inspection IS PEW, (s per Schedule 1) requires an authorisation from EWRB; ie an "Inspector" PL.

Schedule 1 actually makes it very clear: only "inspection of work" that is "required by these regulations" and also is "carried out for purpose of compliance with these regulations" can be PEW.

It follows that any other kind of inspection is NOT PEW.

The PEW part of our job is protected; and the Board do take action when unlicenced persons do PEW. For the rest; just like mechanics and lots of other trades, no licence required and anyone can offer the service; buyer beware.

Why anyone would think it a good idea to rely on an electrical report prepared by by someone with no electrical qualifications is beyond me. No insurance company is likely to accept it. But I probably wouldn't want that sort of person as a customer anyway.

I try to avoid the bottom end of the market; because bottom feeders eat a lot of sh!t.
Way better to have a reputation for being good, than one for being cheap.
   

rarrar
Mar 20 2019 10:53

it's simple, a customer sees a pretty letter head, and the word inspection and believe in good faith they have had this component checked to a high standard. one of my customers spent $28 getting his house rewired and renovated after as it was a two story ex state house with rubber and rewiring was highly instrusive.He was broken, he honestly believed he had had a report done by people who knew what they were talking about.
Last week I had a call from someone whose 'building inspection company' reco0mmend they get an electrician to inspect the house, might sound like it's a bit pedantic but an electrician can't 'inspect' the house, what else don't they know.

   

AlecK
Mar 20 2019 12:00

As the ads used to say; the only thing "duck" tape can't fix is stupid.

If someone though is unhappy when they find their house inspection report wasn't adequate WRT electrical matters, they way to address that is by taking the person who provided it to court; seeking to recover the costs.

The other one, which suggested getting an electrician to "inspect" the electrical installation, was absolutely correct. Yes it's inspection, but it's not "inspection of PEW" and it's not "inspection required for compliance with ESRs"; so it is not PEW and certainly doesn't require an "Inspector" PL.
An electrician should be able to do a perfectly adequate inspection report for this - and the house inspection company was doing the right thing by suggesting it be done.
To say an electrician "can't inspect a house" is simply wrong.

The only things that require an "Inspector" PL are:
- inspection of high risk PEW under ESR 70
- issue of WoEF under ESR 78 (other than first issue for new)
- periodic assessment of first three types of installation under ESR 75 (the 2nd three don't require any PL at all; just a "competent person" as defined in the relevant Standard).

Also worth noting that just getting an electrical PL holder - whether "Electrician" or "Inspector" - doesn't guarantee a reliable report. I've seen some shockers, even over an "Inspector"'s signature.

As I said earlier, if you want this stuff to be classified as PEW; you need to lobby ES. But I don't like the chances. The purpose of PEW being restricted is not to protect the public from their own stupidity; and it';s also not to protect our incomes from competition. It's to increase the chances of work done being electrically safe.
I doubt a compelling case can be made that making pre-sale type house inspections PEW would result in any real safety benefit. Especially when there's a constant stream of cases through the Board that indicate that our trade includes just as many slackers, f-wits & cowboys as any other.





   

rarrar
Mar 20 2019 19:59

again aleck, while there are sparkies that aren't up to scratch using the term 'get an electrician to Inspect' demonstrates the lack of knowledge some of these people have of the trade which they are charging people to represent it appears.
   

AngryClient
Mar 21 2019 20:03

the fuck is duck tape?
   

rarrar
Mar 21 2019 20:59

duct
   

ShaneR
Mar 22 2019 07:12

@AlecK

Are you talking about that inspector who was trying to tell the board that it wasn't his job to test so he couldn't be held responsible?
   

AlecK
Mar 22 2019 10:01

Angry client:
Yes, "Duck" tape is a brand name for a kind of duct tape. Mostly sold in USA. Has a picture of a duck on the wrapping. And used that slogan: "even Duck tape can't fix stupid" in advertising some years ago.

ShaneR:
yes, but not just him. He's just the latest one before the Board. Similar "Inspector" ignorance comes up regularly on this forum.

Unfortunately even the Board, and particularly their "expert" advisors, routinely get basic stuff wrong (as demonstrated in another thread (Isolation switches) yesterday. And they are the body who the Act says are supposed to "promote, monitor, and review"(used to say "ensure") our competence!

Back to topic.
1
Doing an electrical check for sale / insurance purposes certainly includes inspection (dictionary definition). But it is NOT inspection-of-PEW-required-for-compliance-with-ESRs; so it does NOT require an inspector" PL. It's not PEW, so no sort of PL is required.

2
A good case can be made that such work should be done by someone who knows what they're looking at. And unfortunately even getting either an electrician or an Inspector to do it doesn't guarantee that it will be done thoroughly & professionally. There's not even a decent Standard to work to - though current revision of "3019" should improve that. So there's not much of a case for making it PEW.

No different from getting other aspects of the house checked; you do it yourself; or you choose someone to trust. And you accept that if you choose poorly, you may regret it.






   

rarrar
Mar 23 2019 12:24

i go back to my original thoughts, using the word inspect implies that they are getting the same service they will from someone who is qualified to inspect, that's what worries me. i've had several customers who spent money believing they were hiring someone who knew their stuff not just how to write a cool sounding report simply. Only to find out the fine print exonerates the writer of any liability of being even accurate. It's misrepresentation. As for saying a lot of sparkies aren't up to it, that's a hole different matter and since when has two wrongs made a right?
   

rarrar
Apr 11 2019 08:59

so i paid my rego last night, $250, for what??, yet several weeks ago i sent an email to the ewrb re this subject and not received a reply, might have to go into the office and get an answer.